Login Here**Title change - I originally thought she was referring to the assassination. Upon listening again, I think she likely meant RFK's still being in the race in June. Either way, it was an error in judgment to bring that up. CS
All I can say is wow. I cannot believe she would be this stupid.:
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I have a very different take on this, I guess.
I hear her talking about previous campaigns and when people were still in the running…June…she remembers especially RFK, California, June. So do I. God, I’ll never forget.
I speak as an Obama voter from Muskingum County.
Perhaps you are right
Will adjust to reflect that
I agree that her citation of RFK in that context wasn’t out of line.
However, she’s still full of it.
NY Times 1/12/08:
In April 1992, New York Democrats squelched the presidential aspirations of Paul E. Tsongas and Edmund G. Brown Jr., who had run as an anti-establishment candidate, and all but virtually sealed Bill Clinton’s presidential nomination.
She’s clearly saying that she should stay in the race, because Obama could be assassinated, and then she would have the best chance to step into his place.
Pretty shocking. It is true that it could happen. It could happen to any candidate.
The thing is, God forbid that should it happen, staying in the race would not affect whether or not she would win anything.
Oh, and BTW the 40th anniversary of the RFK assassination is June 4th.
Scratch my comment at #4.
Now that I’ve listened to the whole thing, I agree. She’s just saying, why the hurry…other races have gone into June…then, she stupidly brought up the RFK assassination…to cite that he was still campaigning in June. The sound clips have gone out all over the media and when edited, it sounds different.
LS, maybe you guys are right…I can’t tell, really.
Hey, Cliff
Did you catch Rachel Maddow yesterday? She was pretty worked up about the DNC Rules Committee meeting on May 31. Her view is that once that process is started, HRC will appeal any decision of the Rules Committee, and that the next committee (certification?) would wait until the convention to decide how to seat FL and MI.
Rachael’s contention is that once the committee process gets started on 5/31 it’s irrevocable–the nom will be up in the air until late August no matter the results on June 3rd.
Her conclusion is that giving McBu’ush a 7-month head start on campaigning for the general (and another umpteen months of fellatial press coverage) and leaving the nominee only a couple of months to campaign as the official candidate will be fatal: it will ensure a McCain victory and a 3rd Bu’ush term.
Her ultimate point: Obama has until the 31st to get enough openly pledged supers to clinch the nom without MI or FL, so that he can short-circuit the committee process by agreeing to whatever HRC demands in that meeting. Obviously, that makes the “magic” date of June 3 a bit irrelevant.
How much of this do you think is right?
FunnyDiva
well, so much for being a “senior-statesman”.
I’m glad she wasn’t trying to use the assasination, per se
OTOH, she should have been much, much smarter and anticipated that what she said would get sliced and diced to feed the news cycle. She just can’t afford to keep talking off the top of her head this way.
So, Cliff’s point about stupid stands, although for different reasons.
FunnyDiva
BREAKING NEW!
May 27th fund raiser planned in Phoenix for McCain & Bush has been moved to a private location. The Secret Service have moved it an undisclosed location due to the planned protest from the Phoenix Anti-War Coalition.
Think of this….. the Arizona war protesting community has won….. we have pushed John McCain and Bush out of their planned event…. WOW..
Thus was born a new nickname: McChickenshit.
Additions……. NO Photographs will be allowed the fund raiser…. NO cameras allowed…
Event moved to an undisclosed location in Mesa AZ….. maybe they don’t want to see these?
KPHX Billboards - McSame
I agree, whatever her intentions, it was very stupid of her to bring up 1968. Not only would it piss off Democrats. It would send the TradMed into a frenzy. She should know better, but alas she just drove the last stake into her own campaign.
Can someone clarify because I read it a comment that HRC currently is holding Bobby Kennedy’s former Senate Seat?
Clinton’s political tin ear strikes again. Is this really the kind of political experience the nation needs? She wants to stay in the race no matter how much damage it does to Democrats or how much it helps McCain. Is this leadership? And, of course, she voted for the Iraq AUMF and then proceeded to support the war for 3 years. Is this someone who avoids mistakes or persists in them?
She’s not stupid. She’s merely sending a message to the wackos that the right wing depends on to do their dirty work. Double secret service protection on Barak Obama.
She said this once before to Richard Stengel of Time
Special Comment on this tonight.
Her conclusion is that giving McBu’ush a 7-month head start on campaigning for the general (and another umpteen months of fellatial press coverage) and leaving the nominee only a couple of months to campaign as the official candidate will be fatal: it will ensure a McCain victory and a 3rd Bu’ush term.
…Nahhhh, y’think?
It would put the spotlight on McCain.
He’s doing a bang-up job so far!
The McCain Monster Gaffe Rally puts on exhibitions daily.
I think you got it; I do not buy the more slimy take on her remarks. If nothing else, I do not think she would want to offend Teddy in this way. It may have been careless, but not malevolent, no matter what you think of her.
Good deal!
I look forward to more analysis of this Hillary comment. I just don’t think she was “signaling’ something. I think she’s exhausted and needs to take a week off.
Look forward to Keith’s special comment.
It deserves to be pointed out that the New York dem primary in early April ‘92 put Bill Clinton in the driver’s seat — much as Obama is now.
Jerry Brown didn’t back off his anti-establishment rhetoric following NY, iirc, but he certainly didn’t offer moments of praise for the GOP candidate, or unleash slash and burn attacks on Slick’s “electibility.”
Bobby Kennedy Jr. is in her camp. He needs to help her out right now.
That’s true. Do you think she said that she had some sort of twisted logic to this comment?
It’s too bad because her mis-statements weren’t about RFK, which was a legitimate historical reference in the context of her remarks.
And I’ve never voted for a Clinton in my life, btw…
I think the reference to RFK was legit.
What was pure nonsense was claiming that her husband wasn’t in the same commanding position in the ‘92 dem race in early April as Obama is now.
All I know is that she must be freaking out right about now. When you live with that very same risk yourself 24/7, which she has for years, perhaps one loses the “sensitivity” factor. It is an historical fact that RFK was killed in June. That much is for sure.
But regular people who here this are just going to react with the feeling of being stabbed in the heart, just by hearing the invocation of that event.
I doubt she will be able to continue. Besides, the GOP will run the clip on a non-stop loop. She’s pretty much toast.
Agreed. Lost any hope for VP too.
Cliff105, I assume you are The Cliff?!
I’m some other guy named Cliff…the slacker punk rock Cliff.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7USbmrCxPY8
(1:13)
I have said for a long time that Senator Clinton is a quintissential clinical borderline personality. She meets all the criteria John Gunderson has outlined in years of articles in the psychiatry journals–and even those of us who aren’t psychiatrists who have ever covered those emergency rooms are introduced to John Gunderson and the concept because we see a number of these patients as attempted suicides.
It does qualify as Clinton’s dumbest public comment–and may be a career breaking comment if so many of her others haven’t been for Clinton.
The world, and the US and the Senate and the Democratic party never owed her something like majority leader or Supreme Court anyway.
She has nowhere near the qualifications for S. Ct. anyway, but then we have Thomas one of the world’s dumbest lawyers on it don’t we?
If you’ve been to law school and you don’t think you can clean Thomas’ clock as to con law, case analysis, finding on point controlling precedents, and any other thing that qualifies as a sentence in the English language, maybe you should consider other venues with your law degree in hand.
Clinton needs to take that hundred million with a license to print more with some Bill deal in Kazakhstan and buy herself a shrink who has a decent grip on current antipsychotic drug regiments.
What will be funny to read are good ole Jeralyn Merritt and perhaps some of those “FDL Hillruh or Ahm’ Votin for McCaine Bah God Don’t You Dare say Nothin’ Bad About Mah Hillruh” try to spin her out of this clusterfuck.
1) Hillary is going past June 3 about the way you’ll see the Titanic cross the finish line at the 2008 Kentucky Derby.
2)Michelle Obama’s pillow talk is probably not going to be “Yeah honey we really need the Hillruh on the ticket as Veepmistress” because she brings so much to your candidacy.” Let’s name her VP on June 3.
Clinton needs to take that 100 millionairess money and spend some of it on antisychotic medication and the words would not be regiments it would be drug regimens.
Regiments are what it might take to haul her dumb ass out of the race.
Stupid thing for her to say but not evil IMHO. Her “apology” was even more stupid. It should’ve been heartfelt, directed as it was to the Kennedys (and not to Obama!), but it wasn’t. It was a pseudo-if-anyone-was-offended-apology. I didn’t see KO’s Special Comment but did see Fineman’s and Alter’s takes, and I agreed. She’s exhausted, on autopilot, and careless because of it. This may be the end for her.
Driven into the shadows? By a Peace protest?
And on MY BIRTHDAY, no less… I will have to celebrate this one..
Clinton/Huckabee 08′!
Clinton’s comment is not as John Harwood has said to previde historical context.
It’s right in the context of the moron from Marietta Georgia who made the Chimp Obama T-shirts and tried to explain them as “get over it clean fun” and the idiot from Georgia who put a picture of Obama with a gunsite superimposed on his head on the front page.
And as predicted, there are the Late Night comedians and their is the newest comdian wannabe Ms. Jeralyn Merritt providing a laugh a minute. Notice no one of the Fire Dog Lakie headliners has touched this radioactive comment by Mrs. Hillruh.
From Jeralyn Merritt:
Making Mountains Out of Molehills
And ahmm Jeralyn the Lawyuh who don’t have no use for the First Amendment so if you dare to criticize mah Hillruh ah’ll just take you out as a commenter so don’t dear cause ah done got a low threshold says Mizzzzz Jeralynnn–she been in court–she’s busy and important and she’s a lawyuh. Whoooo baby!!!
I quotin’:
I guess Jeralyn’s public was waiting with baited breaths for more Talkleft threads on “the matter” and they will be disappointed to the point of borderline depression like their candidate.
A whole lot of people have gone somewhere else because they can’t read your crap as anything but humor Jeralynn. Your lady hasn’t been in the race for anything near Pennsylvania Avenue in months.
Obama needs to “go virtual” as soon as the primary is over.
If he set up a comfortable home studio, he could appear a hundred places on-screen, live, any time, via to the internet toobs, and never leave home.
Necessity is the mother of protection, it might even be a great new way to campaign.
I respectfully disagree Margot. I don’t think anyone can interpret/spin it any other way. I think HIllary is positioning herself for losing any future race she enters.
Interesting that Russert Chief of NBC’s Washington Bureau peddles the fiction that Clinton appointed very many Super D’s to anything in the world. Simply didn’t happen and Timmuh/Timmeh isn’t a big student of political history.
In some places he needs to go up close and personal and press flesh and talk to them in the way he can but many people don’t yet realize he can, I think. He did make a mistake not going to some places where he lost the popular vote so heavily IMHO, but your idea is an interesting one as to reaching people without travelling.
This country has to learn that you don’t solve disagreements by popping a cap in someone’s head. Maybe they aren’t up to it.
Not surprising. The suburban Chicago daddy’s girl with the brains and a
smart mouth is unchanged. It is just that she was elevated past the
level of her incompetence by an accident of history, she married a
President to be and has lived in the bubble around Bill Clinton for so
long and has had Potomac fever for so long that she finally talked this
bit of triangulation out loud… don’t expect her to recant or actually
apologise, suspected Asperger’s will prevent that from ever happening.
If New York wants that in a senator, fine, but that persona should never
have the terrible burden and power of a POTUS.
Talk Left used to be a good read, but a generation of boomer JD women
have taken HRC as a model for so long they cannot see it, will not see
it, and damn anyone who can. Just another Condi, way out of their depth
and beyond any real contact with reality. You have it right, sir.
I think the “assassination” concerns are overblown.
None of these right wingers have the guts.
And all the “Lone Gunman” concoctions of yore re Jack and Bobby have long been debunked.
Seems to me RFK was killed because he was a threat to the killers of his brother.
Who killed his brother?
http://educationforum.ipbhost......ntry125833
Happy birthday, JEP!
All she said is that her path to the nomination goes through Obama’s dead body. How on earth could anybody have a problem with that?
Gosh people are sooooo oversensitive.
Agree that it was dumb, but I would offer for consideration, that it was not unplanned. I think they are clearly ripping off Huckabee’s “joke” at the NRA. It takes something that big to move the topic of conversation away from (1) will she be Barack’s veep or (2) when will she drop out? It also resonates with all those voters who like to joke about a hangman’s noose. See Jena. My guess is that her handlers suspected these comments would grab headlines. For some time now they have been
reading TBoggoperating under the premise, “what do we have to lose?”I also think she’s still reeling in New York state from her “hard working white voters.” I don’t think her campaign fully understood how semitic peoples would interpret that particular dog whistle. The “whites only” club never considered “Jews” as members. Her handlers probably thought that bringing Robert, didn’t hurt in NY state. I think Sirhan was a little nuts, but the collective memory is that he was Palestianian assassinating Robert for his support of Israel in the Six-day war. They desperately need those donors to re start writing checks to her campaign. Her handlers might also have justified it as an
pathetic almost subliminalattempt to reconnect with liberals in a superficial way. They knew the only video most people would see was Hillary saying Robert Kennedy’s name. Finally, they’re banking on idiot’s like me, who keep saying “I’ll support the Democratic nominee for President.”Never hook with a hooker. There is no upside to FDL to getting hooked into what is a personality contest. No one from FDL is out defending the comments or afaik, HRC’s decision to stay in.
You, ACitizen and others have debated it to death in the comments. While I appreciate the content you bring, (I’ve learned a lot from your comments) I haven’t seen anyone on either side, commenting, good point, you changed my mind.
FDL’s high level, core issues, out of Iraq, campaign finance reform, retroactive immunity are getting almost zero traction at the national level. Jane is trying to herd cats, keep the liberals unified AND inside the party. I think both of those are higher priorities.
Hillary’s a dead horse.
McCain is a live one on his way to the glue factory.
Why beat a dead horse when Gaffemeister McCain is more worthy of our barbs?
I’ll tell you why Cliff. The timing of this primary has required Obama’s major energy and time in meetings to strategize against Clinton when every expert in running a general campaign I’ve read and heard says that he needs 4-6 months to go after McCain, and McCain’s many organicers and the 527s will be doing their own and very insipid version of Hillary’s kitchen sink.
Further the so-called pressure of a media particularly TV that has way too much time on its hands and repeats the mantra for weeks about pressure from Clinton supporters including her husband that she be given a reward for her efforts campaigning is ridiculous. If Clinton had any sincere and significant regard for helping Obama who has been chosen by the majority of people in elections that actually counted and weren’t as Marcy from Michigan calls a clusterfuck–one I might add completely conceived by very prominent and rich Super Delegates from Michigan who regard themselves each as monarchs in their own right, she would have gotten out of the race and stopped her many permutations and variations of the people must vote or the more insipid and frankly crazy reasons why she is staying in the race including her now delusional perception of herself as a stand in waiting in the wings for Obama to be shot.
With this bizarre statement, Hillary shot herself in a lot more places than the ass and her feet–all embedded deeply in her frankly lying mouth long, long ago.
Why don’t we have those 2007 tax returns and the library contributions and their many relationships that would make any connection Obama ever had with Tony Rezko look like chior practice Cliff? Why haven’t the ladies of the Fire Doggie Lake had the integrity to ever do a vetting blog on Clinton the way that LHP distorted facts she did not understand well, including many legal ones with respect to the Rezko trial (after all LHP is a DOJ alumna, specifically of the Public Corruption Unit in the SDNY, currently headed by Boyd Johnson III).
She also had the opportunity to drill using her laptop into the significance of Obama’s votes in the Illinois legislature and failed to do so.
She drew the response (all criticism) of countless attorneys though on the web whether she realizes it or not, for that blog.
I don’t believe that Hillary has Arsperger’s Syndrome at all, but I do believe she shares much in common with many Borderline Personality patients as defined by John Gunderson eloquently and constructively in the psychiatric literature years.
Borderline Personality Disorder
It may be the end of any political aspirations, but the end of her in the primary campaign happened shortly after Iowa.
I’ll tell you why Cliff.
Call me Varnell. I like the idea of there being only one Cliff in this joint.
The timing of this primary has required Obama’s major energy and time in meetings to strategize against Clinton
And in so doing Obama has a battle hardened ground operation in every state in the Union.
Hillary did him a favor. Nothing she threw at him stuck.
Nothing McCain can throw at him will stick, either. Obama ain’t gonna get any more black than he already is. McCain, on the other hand, cashes in every opportunity to look old and out of it and will age rapidly before our eyes.
when every expert in running a general campaign I’ve read and heard says that he needs 4-6 months to go after McCain,
You need to get off the Bob Shrum and Karl Rove.
Keep reading Schecter. McCain is The Amazing Self-Destructo Gaffe-a-Tron.
and McCain’s many organicers and the 527s will be doing their own and very insipid version of Hillary’s kitchen sink.
Yeah, but can they take it to the hole — like Barack?
…I didn’t think so…
c varnell
Pretty good points Varnell although I think he became battle hardened before Hillary began acting out her Borderline Personality hysteria.
The only Rove I’m “on” is that I’d like to kick his ass from one end of the country to the other. Shrummy I like. Did you see the NYT article a few days ago on him and his wife and their Cape Cod home?
I have learned from and continue to enjoy your posts for a good while.
There is a high level of quality and imagination in many FDL posts. However, as Hugh pointed out Jane has gotten very nasty in defense of Hillary and comments she has blocked have not depended on the content or the quality, but rather on who launched them and when.
And specifically Jane and LHP attacked Obama viciously, particularly before it was obvious that Clinton was such a serial liar and manipulative personality and when LHP did her systemically flawed attempt to cut up Obama full of non-substantiated inuendo with particular blogging orgasm over the joy she never realized in the unfolding of Tony Rezko’s trial before Water Gate ($94 million and counting) team member Amy St. Eve, one of four people who were rewarded with federal judgeships by the younger Bush, and while Jane, Christy, and LHP promised to vet Clinton it never happened and it never will, and they have remained deeply entrenched in the fantasy world inhabited by Denver attorney Jeralyn Merritt. They are all congealing their perceived and real slights that women have endured and perceived backing Hillary as efforts at combatting gender bias of all stripes they have seen in their lives by bouying Hillary’s efforts, and backing crazy false statements like the gas tax gimic aimed at the most stupid and uniformed individuals imaginable–people who voted in Kentucky outside Louisville and Jefferson County and Lexington and Fayette County. Many of the same individuals voted on the basis of skin color and a panoply of other epicenters of ignorance in Kentucky, West Virginia, Ohio, Texas, and Pennsylvania.
And despite the media’s distortion, there were not decisive votes or big victories in any of these states with the exception of Kentucky and West Virginia as you probably know better than I do. Obama won the delegate votes in Texas, partly because the Democrats are mired in the past with a primary process based on a cascade of byzantine rules, and partly because of very hard work and smart campaigning and an increasing learning curve on the part of people who haven’t participated enough in the election processes in the past including those who are younger and black.
I understand the committment to the idea that we should have had a woman president long ago, and that there are so many women qualified for any job in government, and certainly in the private sector that should have been represented in much greater numbers long ago.
But to extrapolate voting for Hillary because of this rather than because of her stance on the issues, her actual lack of any particular experience and the facade that she has spun no experience into considerable experience, is a profound mistake.
I think Barry Zito is a swell guy but he’s still 1 - 8.
That’s one more win than Shrum.
Thanks for your kind words.
FYI and fwiw, FDL got started on the CIA leak scandal. The second most core narrative, however, was the Lamont candidacy against Joe Lieberman. Jane opted in very early when Ned had name recognition in CT of 9%. IIRC, Ned was only the second candidate Jane ever asked FDL’ers to donate to. Jane took a ton of crap from FDL’ers and conservative Democrats for “primarying” JoLie. It was an incredibly gutsy stand. One of the greatest days at this blog was when Ned swacked JoLie in the CT primary. After what Lieberman did to Bill during Monica-gate, we were more than a little surprised when he backed JoLie so explicitly in the general. HRC promised help that never materialized. IMHO, without the Clinton’s support, Ned is in the US Senate. One of the saddest day on this blog, rivaling Bush’s commutation of Scooter’s prison sentence, was JoLie’s win in the general.
IMHO, the bigger picture is that Jane has refused to make this a pay-site. She’s trying to fund FDL through advertising and donations. Traffic is the major consideration, but it’s always subservient to preserving the FDL brand. I think Hugh will confirm that Jane has pissed off a lot more feminists (who simply abandoned FDL) over the years by allowing sexist comments to remain in the threads, then the other way around. Jane is going to piss some liberal off, regardless of what she chooses.
ICYMI, I’m very confident that you will enjoy TBogg’s
Clinton’s Calvinball
Wins are important in sports and politics, and I suppose that you can make the analogy in any of life aspects hence Britney Miley Cyrus America who doesn’t know a cert. vote from a cert. mintmakes cutesy sports analogies all the time
You could have enjoyed Zito’s Cy Young year in 2002 and his three All Star years, and I enjoy hearing Shrum.
If you’re into wins, try watching Barack Obama on June 3, and I think you’ll get the idea of how that works.
That helps explain to me some of the obsession with some of the Lake puppies on Lieberman who I have always thought ranks righ up there as a nattering nabob along with the hapless clueless Maine Bobsie twins “which way is up” Snow and Collins. What it is that’s in the head of people from Maine who keep returning those idiots I don’t know, and I could care less if they were women, men or sheep. They are bumbling morons.
Jane and the Lake puppies should realize that they can best channel their hate for Leiberman into getting out the vote for downticket people so they can render Leiberman’s vote moot. I understand they are plenty aware of that.
But Jeralyn Merritt who has now drifted into Looneyville in her obsession for trying to make chocolate pie out of every piece of shit Hillary spits out has summed up Jane Hamsher’s attitude towards banning people who constructively criticize Hillary when she gave her apparent understanding of the First Amendment last night: (which kind of goes if I don’t like it, you can’t say it)–from Jeralyn:
All I’ll say is Hillary is being treated unfairly here. The media and blog commenters are engaging in character assassination. She was making a historical statement on why she needn’t drop out of the race by early June. Democratic nominations have gone past that before. Her emphasis was on the word “June.”
What Jeralyn means is she can’t believe Clinton said such a stupid fucking thing, and dinner with her son will get her mind off it.
It was hilarious to see Christy Pious Holier than Thou Smith and LHP Pious Holier than Thou (Ahm so afraid to say who ah really am) LHP and Jane Pious Holier than Thou Hamsher go over the top pretending to vet Obama, by making false claim after claim in a spew of what would be called 18USC 1001 blog flase statements if their blog audience were the FBI, warning that there would be no pie throwing, and defining pie throwing as any criticism of HRC. Back before Obama prooved he could handily stand up to the three Clinton’s including the one who had no qualifications for the $220,000 a year job her daddy got her with his old friend (her co-workers who have business/economics MBAs and years of experience advising huge enterprises how to make major moves have privately asked what she’s doing there when she doesn’t have a clue how to do that job, the Lake headliners were spewing false claims and unsubstantiated facts by the bushel. LHP’s understanding of the Rezko trial was pathetic, and she claimed Obama was Official A (*g*).
The jurors have been at it now for over a week.
Again Hamsher boots people off her blog in a way Hugh called nasty because it depends on not what is said but who says it. No explanation is ever given for it. I can look at that blog every given day and between the witless zeds, and comments a child could make that flood the blog and camaflouge the ocassional intelligent comment, there continues to be hourly pie throwing and has been for months.
Pete, have you been banned from FDL?
PP,
You continue to post your own blog writings on someone else’s blog. Jane, Christy and others have built this readership with their own hard work, research, and time and you continually crap all over them. It’s rude and bespeaks of jealousy.
I don’t always agree with everything I read here (my brain still operates independently) but I am able to respect the fact that it is THEIR blog, not mine. I am a guest here and if I disagree I do so respectfully and BRIEFLY.
I may not engage in argument as much as I should. I procrastinate. I sometimes turn away from unpleasant decision-making. An FDL behavior that is not directed at me personally has turned out to protect my weaknesses.
I may be mulling over the decision whether to respond to an excoriation that is not well-grounded or fair, then find that comments have been closed less than a full day after a post. Then, deplorably, I may feel some relief and say to myself, “It’s not on me.”
If you’re into wins, try watching Barack Obama on June 3, and I think you’ll get the idea of how that works.
If you want to keep fighting a battle that’s already won, suit yourself.
I’m looking forward to November.
Don’t want commnets? Don’t put it up.
Buy the way, can you read minds?
“the Lake puppies should realize that they can best channel their hate for Leiberman into getting out the vote for downticket people so they can render Leiberman’s vote moot”
Nah. We need the practice now. We have pleanty of spleen left for the General Election.
Varnell, I always respected her “right to run” but it was the appleassed way she ran and the lies she spewed that were inappropriate. On June 3-5, she will either quit, or have her enormous pant suited ass removed by security.
The only thing she and her husband are owed is an indictment and a long prison sentence.
LOL Jeralynn Merritt can defend them because Williams and Connolly have left them for Obama–the impeachment defense apparatus, Greg Craig, the girls and the boys, have all joined the Obama campaign.
Synoia–
Enjoy practicing all you like, but use part of that spleen in the general to really drum the votes out of the woodwork. In a lot of Southern states, there are 500,000 and up African Americans alone not registered and every vote possible is needed.
I contribute and your comments pollute. Try having an opinion and butressing it. I’ve yet to see that here.
Boo Radley–read it for yourself. Sorry I’m late to respond. I’m helping my friend build a computer. If you’re gone, I’ll catch up to you sometime and link this. Atticus Finch would have been on my side without a doubt. Jane would never explain it, and as I type this there are all kinds of inane arguments going on at the Lake and comments on peoples’ respective candidates or ones they don’t favor.
And the loss is not mine. It’s there loss. The Lake is pollutted with numbrain comments like “Rachel’s on now.” If you can read, you have enough visual acuity to figure out Rachel is on and are smart enough to work a TV and a remote. You rarely see those childish comments on EW’s blog.
Clinton Campaign On 3 AM AD
By: Jane Hamsher Thursday March 6, 2008 8:42 am
http://firedoglake.com/2008/03...../#comments
http://firedoglake.com/2008/03.....nt-1317510
PetePierce March 6th, 2008 at 11:24 am
227
In response to looseheadprop @ 218
Hillary doesn¡¯t have a mathematical prospect for gaining either the delegate vote, or the popular vote after Peurto Rico. She is not going to get Michigan and Florida as is.
So that brings us to the question do you think Ickes can grab enough delegates that are pledged delegates from Obama and get Super Delegates to abandon Obama who were elected by real people to ignore what the people voted for them to do enough to take the election from Obama?
Do you plan to do an analogue vetting post for Hillary who has yet to be vetted here or in the media? Obama and his supporters are going to be pressing MSM to vet Hillary¡¯s so called undefined claim to experience.
Here are some questions for your vetting post besides the obvious one of what constitutes her experience in foreign affairs or domestic crisis management and why she made the comment that would be appropriate for a Republican to make that she and McCain had experience but Obama only had ¡°a single speech from 2002.
A list of vetting questions for LHP’s vetting post on Clinton
BTW, LHP, Obama was not Public Official A; Citizen A was Fitz’s real target, the Governor of Illinois, and Amy St. Eve released that early this week. I believe you implied or stated it was Obama. Not.
Jane Hamsher March 6th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
254
In response to PetePierce @ 243
Pete you¡¯re out of line. I personally intervened with the mods to bring you back after your last episode but you¡¯ve worked everyone¡¯s last nerve.
There are a lot of places that welcome this kind of pie throwing and this isn¡¯t one of them.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/03.....nt-1317568
looseheadprop March 6th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
256
Just make one thing clear, Pete, I never worked in DOJ¡¯s Public Intergrity Section, which is in DC. I have never had a job that was domiciled in DC.
I did public corruption cases in a US Attorney¡¯s Office in a major city.
I had displaced the word Public Integrity which of course opeates out of Main Justice in DC and frequently sends people to work on cases like the Siegelman Clusterfuck that Rove currently is hiding from HJC on but blabbing nonstop on Fox TV and in magazines about.
Scott Horton made the same mistake repeatedly in his blogs on the Spitzer clusterfuck by Garcia and SDNY Public Corruption unit because the terms sound similar.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/03.....nt-1317554
PetePierce March 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
250
In response to looseheadprop @ 244
I don¡¯t think you have evidence that Obama knowingly received illicit funds ever in any proffer by Fitz¡¯s AUSAs.
If so where?
I don¡¯t see you talking about my 15 questions for Hillary. Vetting her is not so much your cup of tea is it? How about that pardon of Mark Rich? Do you think that Hillary knew that the funds she took from Norman Hsu who enterd a plea and is now in the care of bad physicians in the DOJ medical system were illicit?
Clinton Boxer Doner Pleads Guilty to Giving Clinton and Boxer Illegal Gotten Gains–Never touched by Smith, LHP, Hamsher who orgasmed over Rezko
February 29, 2008
How ’bout Jinnah LHP? Did Hillary know that Jinnah¡s contributions to her and Boxer were from illicit gains and why did she take the money. Jinnah’s on the way to prison.
Why won’t you vet Hillary to answer my questions the way you repeatedly purported to vet Obama here?
I’d update and correct one prediction I made in March. Obama has beaten Clinton by every metric except the money she owes and is hording form people like Mark Penn (that’s called poetic justice as opposed to Main Justice).
Obama will offer her a little more than half the Michigan and Florida delegates to shut her up and get her exponentially crazy face and comments off the TV screens, and send her back to Chappaqua New York where she can begin taking lessons in dog care.
1. You didn’t respond to my question. If you want people to respond to your questions, you have to respond to their’s.
Below is what you said to lhp in your first link:
lhp responded:
You made several comments after it, but I never saw any comments addressing this issue. To anyone reading the thread, that means lhp was right and you were wrong. If you want credibility with front-pagers and commenters, you fess up. Thanks lhp, I was wrong. Let’s move on. You didn’t do that and most people consider that “blogging in bad faith.”
2. Do you know who leisureguy is?
3. I think the reason people are tuning you out is because you apparently won’t repeat the mantra: “I will support the Democratic nominee for President.”
OT, Obama is not a liberal candidate. I think what’s confusing a lot of people at FDL is why you are defending him as though he is.
If you want to survive at FDL and have an impact, you have to repackage your stuff. Try this, it’s not Hillary, it’s her campaign. Since you’re not a shrink, forget about labeling people as mentally ill. Stick with content, which is what you’re good at, and just put it out there in neutral under FWIW or FYI if it’s new. Drain all the snark, because that’s the “pie-throwing” that’s getting you into trouble.
4. IMHO, the only reason Jane commented in the thread was because she’s getting tons of emails from people who donate money to FDL, to ban you from the entire site.
5.
You have a “tin ear” when it comes to politics. If Obama starts “attacking” anyone, he’s finished. Hillary and McCain have made sure that everyone understands that he’s an ANGRY, BLACK man. If he says “darn” it costs him.
6. Don’t bludgeon. If you keep repeating the same thing over and over and no one comments, it means they’re tired of reading it.
You criticize people for being dumb commenters, it’s not their fault any more than your intelligence is your fault. That alienates people. Since you don’t like the level of discussion at FDL, spend more time with CS, EW and TBogg.
You criticize female candidates on a blog that has a lot of women. Right or wrong, some of the women are just going to assume you’re an effing misogynist. That may not be fair, but it’s life.
You make statements that could be construed by some as critical of Rachel Maddow on a blog that has heavy representation from GLBT communities. Again it might not be fair, but people might assume you’re anti GLBT.
You are frankly disrespectful in tone and sarcasm to Jane and lhp. Don’t do that, stick to content.
It’s gotta be tough to be trying to campaign, and at the same time TRYING to avoid the populace!!
good luck with that, boys!
NOT!
would be very kewl if the rest of the nation followed AZ’s example and drove the war mongerers underground for the rest of this election season!
Did y’all see her Op Ed this morning? I wrote about it here.
Thanks Betsy.
1. You didn’t respond to my question. If you want people to respond to your questions, you have to respond to their’s.
What question do you want responses to? Can you be specific so I can respond? Is my job at stake? Are you planning to fire me? LOL I’m happy to respond when I have the time.
You managed to run the board. Everything you just said is wrong.
For starters, I love Rachel Madow and was not criticizing Rachel. Let’s be crystal fucking clear her Uncle Boo Radley because I am always honest. I was an early adopter of Air America listening to it by taping it or when I was working overnight covering ER’s when I could get to the radio.
I was critical of the junk on FDL–the zeds, the announcing which talking head was talking–it’s a thing that a ton of very old people do and there’s nothing particularly wrong that they do it when the TV’s on and 10 people are in a room and everyone can see who’s on they announce it anyway and it cluters up the thread.
Go back and read what I said. I made no comments whatsofucking ever about Rachel Madow’s talent, content, or whatever. I’m thrilled that they have made her a fixture to counter the repetitive braying of Pat Buchannan and if you haven’t noticed, Buchanan, Scarborough, and everyone else that has influence in the Rethug party wanted Hillary wildly and badly. They have so much 527 legitimate research on the Clintons they are just waiting to reveal the contributors to the library and the deals that got them to contribute so the Clintons could grab the money.
I can quote and I will link many Marcy Wheeler bloggers making the exact same criticisms of the inane banal crap that is always a part of the landscape and milieu at FDL that dilutes its quality. That’s what I was about not dissing Rachel. But I don’t need people to tell me when Rachel is on. I have a puppy capable of doing that.
You never answered my question and no Lakenista will. Why in the hell don’t the Clintons release their 2007 taxes and their library contributors. LHP was part of the SDNY Public Corruption unit–that’s the kind of thing they looked for day in day out but when it comes to her girl Hillary she suddenly gets anmenisa and can’t think of asking where the tax returns and library contributor list is.
I hope I straightened you out on Rachel Madow and me. It’s the fucking innane stupid comments. I looked at a million comments that said “me and Lahoma like Barack.” “Me and Lahoma are going upstairs to watch TV. Let me help you Boo–that’s the stuff of people who are obsessed with Twitter who let you know when they’re going to the fucking mall or the other room.
I understand community. I understand being concerned about someone being sick. That’s real and that’s important. Or their daughter achieving something. That’s normal social interaction. But there are a million inane comments that clutter the Lake and Jane knows it and Christy knows it and they put up with it and maybe they wan’t them. But plenty of people were critical of them on EW when the format switched and they were afraid they would lose Marcy’s blog because they thought Marcy was ending her blog back in December of I think 2006 when the format changed to the teensy tiny microsopic print.
I didn’t dodge any question I just was busy on a Saturday and couldn’t get back until late Saturday night. I told you I’m building a dream computer for my friend. You know or should understand the thrill of being able to pick out whatever motherboard, CPU, PSU, components, vid card you want and that’s what we’re doing. I’m going back to finish it in a little while.
I was reproducing for you the exact comments that got me booted so you could see for yourself. Look at the links. I can’t copy the whole thread. You can’t even submit that much and who would want to see it when you can link it. I linked the whole thread for you. That did answer your question.
LHP did a post in which she was not only wrong many many fucking times but got ripped to shreds by lawyers who dived into post on KOS when KOS took her to task in fact. I pointed out in detail (get off your ass and read the thread and I’ll link it for you how she was wrong and in typical FDL chickenshit fashion they closed the thread because lawyers from all over the country were coming in and tearing LHP apart on her thread starting with about the 275s. The only thing I was wrong about was the mistype, of Public Integrity for Public Corruption a mistake Scott Horton who was with Mukasey’s law firm continues to make to this very fucking day.
And I picked up that little tiny mistake. And notice LHPs aloof bullshit that she was public integrity in some large city when she has said a million times that the large city was SCNY or NYC.
And I said a million times before Amy St. Eve announced it to LHP that Official A was the gov of Illinois and this trial was not about Fitz going after Obama or any liability to Obama and guess fucking what? Day 10 of jury deliberations and Obama hasn’t been touched. That didn’t work out for LHP and it’s going to be President Obama to her. I wouldn’t look for a Supreme Court appointment for LHP btw or any federal judiciary appointment.
Maybe LHP and Jane will vote McCain. Go for it. You can as well.
LHP tried to rip Obama; it failed and she’s lost that cause. I can’t imagine she’s proud of the way Hillary has conducted herself and LHP knows damn well that if she were cross examining Hillary or if I was it wouldn’t be a pretty sight for Hillary. I’d love to get Hillary or Bill on the stand in a criminal trial. I’d love to subpoena those 2007 tax returns and the Library contributions and tapes of conversations that had Bill making deals for $31 million dollars to get donated to the library.
Anyone that believes that those particularly selfish multimillioniares is empathetic to a coal miner’s daughter in Kentucky, or West Virginia or Penn is out of their fucking skull.
I don’t and I am proud that if I ever saw a leisure suit coming my way I immediately got out of the area.
I WILL OF COURSE SUPPORT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT AND I KNOW WHO HE IS.
What I did say was this back before Super
Tuesday on the Lake. I said that hundreds of thousands of blacks on urban radio will stay home if Obama had the election stolen by Super Ds if he won the elected delegates. That’s true but it’s not going to happen so I hope you are working on getting out the black vote. The melanin in my skin I was born with makes me “white.” Dark skinned people have more melanocytes in their skin regardless of their ethnicity or country’s origin, and educational or cultural issues are a product of life in the USA–do you live there? Are you doing anything about them?
The main point of the systemically flawed post by LHP that was torn apart on KOS and on her own thread before Jane rushed to close it–look at the thread because lawyers began to point out a panoply of LHP mistakes was LHP wanted to tear apart Obama in the context of Rezko and her own laziness about what a present vote meant in the Illinois legislature (Obama was asked to make those present votes by Planned Parent Hood and a gamut of other women’s groups). Avner Mikvahg who was Bill Clinton’s (that’s Hillary’s husband for you Boo Radley) administrastion and left the D.C. Circuit Appellate bench wrote a NYT op ed which ripped apart LHP’s contention on the Present Votes and guess what? Mikavah was an appellate judge, White House Counsel and former Illinois legislator who is now a Distinguishe Professor at the University of Chicago School of Law along with Cass Sunstein in the city that Fitzie Resides in and right now knows he is not going to get convictions on all or maybe any of the many counts he brought against Rezko.
Is Rezko a guy who has broken a lot of laws trying to launder money and gain political influence? Hell yes. I never disagreed with LHP on that and many things. And I do respect that LHP is a bright, savvy, constructive former US Attorney that brings a lot of talent to the table. But she’s human and her judgement can get clouded and it did when she penned that blog. Her recent series of blogs on DOJ and Christy’s have been terrific.
But I would point out though no fault of LHPs but I hope she realizes it that immigrants and prisoners are dying because of stupid reprehensible lack of medical care in detention facilities right smack in the Southern District of New York and Elizabeth New Jersey and LHP always has that No Torture banner up on her headlines.
When is LHP going to get off her butt and demand that stop? Why doesn’t LHP who talks about trying to help drug addicts in Harlem when she was with Public Corruption (gee we see and save many of them in the emergency room) try to stop the total shit medical care in those DOJ/BOP/INS/ICE/DHS facilities? Doesn’t she think they should get the same care her kid should enjoy? I certainly do.
Does it bother LHP that many of the immigration judges now were vetted by one Monica Airhead shit law degree Goodling? Or Christy? Main Justice is to use one of Marcy’s terms a real prodigious clusterfuck. They have been hijacked by Karl Fucking Rove.
Do you see the people in the district branches of DOJ opening their mouths about it? Hell fucking no. I’ve confronted a bunch of them and they are privately embarassed but they are scared shitless to say a fucking thing about it to EOUSA or OLC which is now a trainreck or Main Justice because Rove and Gillespie and Addington control it and Bushies are very vindictive and love to eat their own.
What I said personally was this. If Hillary had been able to steal this election after Obama clearly will have one not only the metric that counts the delegates but the popular vote that doesn’t count and let’s get real here I would vote for every Democratic down ticket candidate and I’m campaigning for a friend of mine who has a credible chance to unseat a Republican prickass in the Senate and get his seat on Senate Judiciary–it’d be a sea change or paradigm shift as you well educated types are wont to say. He wouldn’t be the mealy mouthed idiot that Feinstein is, or the cowing chickenshit that Leahy often is and he’d bring a ton of criminal litigation experience into that room–3 times as much in fact that Sheldon Whitehouse former US Attorney in Rhode Island has and btw White House became a cowing pussy when it comes to FISA he supports the Senate Intel ala SSIC version with both feet in his mouth.
I voted for Bill Clinton twice and was happy to do it at the time. I have never voted for the other Clinton and won’t.
And talk of Chelsea for office? Give me a break. Chelsea does nothing at a $220,000 a year job for which she has no qualificaitons that daddy got her. She refuses to take press questions because she is terrified of them. She’s not 6 she’s 29 fucking years old pushing 30 and mommy and daddy paid for education at two good universities but she got no experience for her current job where her collegues advise enterprises in making major personnel and equipment changes and no one asks Chelsea for said advice in the real world. I know companies who use her company. Chelsea lives in a $3.5 million apartment for which she doesn’t pay a penny. Chelsea is so frightened of press questions that she knows could lead to the secrets deeply buried in the Clinton family that she doesn’t dare run for office and she’d be cut into ribbons if she did.
4. IMHO, the only reason Jane commented in the thread was because she’s getting tons of emails from people who donate money to FDL, to ban you from the entire site.
So free speech at FDL is for sale? That’s kind of like the idiot that tried to buy Super Delegates for Hillary last week and was caught bribbing them isn’t it? In other words if you contribute to Jane, you buy the license to say what you want because right now people are saying whatever they want at FDL trashing Obama or trashing Hillary? Have you read it or do I have to paste it for you? Let me know please and I’ll paste you the daily pie throwing and inane stupid comments at the Lake.
FDL has a lot of posters who don’t distinguish a cert. vote from a Cert mint. and couldn’t tell you what a cert. vote is.
I profoundly value and respect Marcy’s blog and Marcy wants Michigan voters not to be screwed by the clusterfucking arrogant Super D’s the labor leader, Debbie Dingle, Karl Levin, and others I have named many times, because she cares about their vote. But Marcy is also well aware that Clinton a Yale Law grad and fellow alumna of LHP (as to school not time) . who flunked the D.C. Bar and never had the balls to take it again, and Obama a Harvard Law grad signed an agreement. The agrement is clear and attorney Wasserman Schultz fucking knows this–I love the angry look on her face now along with Clinton’s as they both realize it’s fucking over and the fat lady will soon be removing her exponentially enlarging pant suit off the stage.
You criticize people for being dumb commenters, it’s not their fault any more than your intelligence is your fault. That alienates people. Since you don’t like the level of discussion at FDL, spend more time with CS, EW and TBogg.
How in the world are the inane comments like Keith’s on now (don’t misconstrue that I’m not a KO fan–he’s great and he’s not been unfair to the Hillruh).
I know who he is, what he stands for, and what he’s going to do in the Oval better than you do. And it’s a paradigm shift from Bush and McCain and Addington and those sumbags. And so are the people he will papoint and Hillruh ain’t one.
You don’t know how medicine works in this country do you? I covered a psych emergency room to pay the bills during residency every fucking day and I labled many people and had to hospitalize many of them (hundreds in fact) and my diagnoses stuck and I helped a lot of them and I saved a whole lot more lives than you have ever contemplated of psychiatric patients. By law we can label them every single day per DSMIV and I took a couple years of ancillary training to do just that. Welcome to the USA–get an education. You don’t have to be a shrink to make accurate diagnoses and I’m going to point out again that Kirk has misportrayed and elevated the validity of neuropsychological testing, brain mapping, not to mention labelling John McCain who is hardly my guy an alcoholic and violent at work. Kirk wouldn’t like it if McCain or his 527s went to work on Kirk’s personal life and started wildely distoring it either.
Make no mistake–neuropsychological testing and brain mapping has no where near the accuracy that Kirk Murphy tells you it has and it does not enjoy a stellar reputation in the medical community. We monitor the series’ on it, we hope it will improve and mature and become accurate but right now it’s at the level of educated speculation and if you look at the progress closely of psychopharmacology it has been snail slow during Kirk Morgan’s entire life and I’ll pit my ability to Rx/understand/write about and monitor psychotropic drugs agianst Kirk’s any day of the year. I’ve had years of doing it, tons of literature and Frank Ayd’s newsletters over the year, and a stellar library learning to do it.
That’s a pure racial stereotype and he has the sameright to attack anyone in a political campaign that the old white man and the old white woman running do.
At least you’ve brought your racism out of the closet. Congratulations. The black man has to watch for the stereotype of the angry black man. Next you’ll be telling me Barack is Jeremiah Wright.
You criticize female candidates on a blog that has a lot of women. Right or wrong, some of the women are just going to assume you’re an effing misogynist. That may not be fair, but it’s life.
I don’t have time to rehabilitate the ignorance of those particular people. I have had long conversations with many women friends who are frankly fed up with Hillary who were her strong supporters before Super Tuesday and South Carolina and the ones who have read Jeralyn Merritt’s blogs wonder if Jeralyn has gone off th e deep end.
There are many many gender inequities in all factets of life and I detest them and have grown up to. But being blindly for Hillary Clinton is not the remedy. I’m sorry, it’s just not.
I have long said I’d like there to be a 50-50 quota for every state and federal office and every branch of this government so femailes have the same representation. I don’t doubt that I’d be on the same page with Jeralyn as to Supreme Court cases that raise gender or civil rights issues or LHP or Christy. No doubt. But Hillary doesn’t solve these problems and Hillary has been egregiously lying from Day One and that’s very offensive to me.
The notion that I can get 18 Gummi Bears with a gas tax release plan that wouldn’t see a nanosecond of daylight with the Dems in Congress–how fucking dumb does Clinton think we are?
I don’t have a “tin ear” on politics or anything else. If you have a specific question about anything ask it and don’t conflate and misconstrue things I said and your threats about where I post mean nothing to me.
BTW I have about 50 requests emailed to me now from one Jane Hamsher asking for money. I guess that means she’d spend it right?
Correction: I shoul